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Apr 4, 2010 2:16:03 GMT -5
Post by patrowdy on Apr 4, 2010 2:16:03 GMT -5
And how many fights has there been at the Almighty Red Wings games lately? How about ZERO! Oh but the Wings walk on water
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Apr 4, 2010 6:08:05 GMT -5
Post by stinger on Apr 4, 2010 6:08:05 GMT -5
One last thing, if you named off all of these players as Tough guys and Fighters based on their penalty minutes, that isn't a true statement as well. I'm sure most of those times, it was because they tried to do something stupid and got caught doing it. But hey if it makes you happy, lets just create a league full of Tim Hauns, because remember what he did earlier in the season. I'm sure if you saw him lumberjack swing his stick at players all the time you would just be super happy because you have no clue what this sport is actually about.
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BORING
Apr 4, 2010 6:26:49 GMT -5
Post by stinger on Apr 4, 2010 6:26:49 GMT -5
Good points Section 10 -everyone you named are legit tough guys that step up when needed and it has nothing to do with pim's. This is a forum and one should be able to voice an opinion without saying someone doesn't know crap about hockey etc.Their are obviously 2 camps here of whether people want to see a more aggressive brand of hockey then played by the Hawks or those that don't-it has nothing to do with untrue statements or not knowing crap. Except for the Red Wings most of the NHL teams -Ottawa-Carkner,Neil,Vanacouver-Hordichuk,Rypien,ST.Louis-Janssen,DJKing .I 'd say almost every NHL has 2-3 with few exceptions-.The Islanders just called up long time minor pro tough guy Trevor Gillies.So with the exception of Detroit do fans enjoy the tough brand of hockey- Is it the 50'S ? I differ the NHL still has a lot of tough hockey unless the Red Wings are your only NHL experience.
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ltdave
Enforcer
100-4X
Posts: 278
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BORING
Apr 4, 2010 7:34:23 GMT -5
Post by ltdave on Apr 4, 2010 7:34:23 GMT -5
the key word is AGGRESSIVE...not goonery (yeah i know i made that one up)...
there is a big difference here. have you ever seen womens hockey? i swear they all play in a non-checking league. thats the mindset the icehawks seem to have, except the other 6 teams arent on that same page...
i dont have all of the answers, in fact i dont think i have any of the answers. i like to see goal scoring i like to see wins. i think AGGRESSIVE hockey produces those two things either for or against the home team. i dont go to see the fights but you have to stick up for yourself or your team and that can be done with some solid and hard checking nearly as well as dropping the gloves...
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Apr 4, 2010 8:22:11 GMT -5
Post by xcheck28 on Apr 4, 2010 8:22:11 GMT -5
the key word is AGGRESSIVE...not goonery (yeah i know i made that one up)... there is a big difference here. have you ever seen womens hockey? i swear they all play in a non-checking league. thats the mindset the icehawks seem to have, except the other 6 teams arent on that same page... i dont have all of the answers, in fact i dont think i have any of the answers. i like to see goal scoring i like to see wins. i think AGGRESSIVE hockey produces those two things either for or against the home team. i dont go to see the fights but you have to stick up for yourself or your team and that can be done with some solid and hard checking nearly as well as dropping the gloves... Bingo! I don't think any of us are looking for tons of fights, just a more aggressive style, with bodychecks, a strong forecheck and standing up for your teammates when necessary. That's an entertaining product, and that's what'll sell tickets.
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Apr 4, 2010 9:56:27 GMT -5
Post by topshelf on Apr 4, 2010 9:56:27 GMT -5
I agree. Agressive is the key word here, but there IS a place for fighting in the game . There is very little emotion or hitting from this team these days. Maybe it's under Stan's direction to try to keep everyone healthy for the playoffs?, I don't know. But playoff hockey requires an agressive, hard-hitting style, and this tick-tack-toe pond hockey style will not cut it. We'll be out in the 1st round. I'm not saying we need to see fights every game, though 1 or 2 would sure be nice, but when you consistantly see our tops players getting run at and abused, and no-one's stepping up, I have a real problem with that. Also, I've noticed several occasions recently where during scrums, or as the play is going on, our players get punched in the back of the head for example, and they didn't even turn around to see who did it!, let alone stand up for themselves. Just skate away. Pathetic. I bet if you took a poll on here a vast majority would prefer seeing a fight or two a game. Just look around in the stands during a fight, uh, if there ever is one, and see how many people are shaking their heads or covering their eyes...
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BORING
Apr 4, 2010 13:00:28 GMT -5
Post by computerjunkie on Apr 4, 2010 13:00:28 GMT -5
I have no problem with seeing fights as well. They can change the momentum of a game, but to go and say a game is boring when your team wins 6 to nothing just because there wasn't a fight, is a little lame. As for those guys that Section 10 listed off as tough guys, yes they may be tough, but they aren't constantly trolling the rink looking for fights, like many kept mentioning about kostadine. That's all Kostadine did. He didn't produce anything beneficial to the team. Instead he tries to get into the other teams heads, which most of the time, those players back down and guess what, he ends up in the box and they score a pp goal against us. That's not what we need on our team. As others have said, Aggressive play is needed, which I agree. As I've said before, if you play like you are hungry and give it your all, then you are more likely to come out on top than is you just slacked off. I would rather see the team lose a game giving it their all, then see them get blown out because they played sloppy. That also goes back to the statement of playing the right way. But when it comes down to the end of the season right around the corner and playoffs looming ahead, we need to score goals. Get into the players heads by showing them the score board while you are 6 goals up on them. Fighting isn't going to win the games that we need to win. If a player on their team wants to try and start something, let them, they will be the ones in the box, while we are on the powerplay and hopefully scoring a goal because of their lower level of play. Go out for 60 minutes of hockey and dig, and hustle, battle on the boards and get shots on the net, play some solid defense and this team can win, fight or no fight, give credit when they earn it. If they dominate a team, don't take the thunder out of it saying it's boring because you didn't see a fight. Fights can only spark some energy, Goals keep it going.
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Apr 4, 2010 17:56:39 GMT -5
Post by section10 on Apr 4, 2010 17:56:39 GMT -5
Boys, I have played hockey my for 33 years. Don't insult my intelligence about the game whenmost of you don't know how to tie skates. Minor league hockey is entertainment......No checking, no after whistle skirmishes, and no fighting is not entertainment to most people. How many people watched Holmstrom get pushed around today by Carcillo? How many cheap shots did Datsyuk take today from Philly players? Was there anything done by the Wings to prevent it? Who do you remember more Curtis Sayler or Paul Polilo? Dave Ivaska or Josh aspenlind? You probably remember the tough guys more, why? THEY ENTERTAINED YOU!!!!!!!!! The Hawks dress 17 players. 11 forwards and 6 defensemen. They play mostly 9 or 10 forwards and 6 defensemen almost the entire game. Why not have a tough guy, entertainer, fan favorite, and some muscle on the bench? Wouldn't you rather see that than a Kerry Bowman or Lovell or Turner? Please don't tell me that Kerry is a good penalty killer because so are 6 other guys.
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ltdave
Enforcer
100-4X
Posts: 278
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BORING
Apr 4, 2010 18:10:29 GMT -5
Post by ltdave on Apr 4, 2010 18:10:29 GMT -5
yeah people who like the bouchard sucker punching, the tie domi meathead play, the keith primeau debacle of meathead play, the todd bertuzzi sucker punches and oh yeah lets not forget claude lemieux's wonderful ENTERTAINMENT with boarding Drapes. they find fighting entertaining...
i go to HOCKEY games to see GOOD HOCKEY. i believe checking is a part of hockey but i dont go to see meathead or goon hockey...
if thats what "we find as entertaining" then maybe we can talk Haun into swinging his stick some more...
having a tough guy on the bench or on a line and being aggressive is NOT THE SAME THING as dropping gloves 2 or 3 times a game. if thats what people want to see, then ill spend my money elsewhere. heck, those people can get tickets to the boxing matches or the toughman contests, and leave the "boring" non-fighting games to those of us who like hockey for what hockey is...
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Apr 4, 2010 18:18:18 GMT -5
Post by rigamortis52 on Apr 4, 2010 18:18:18 GMT -5
yeah people who like the bouchard sucker punching, the tie domi meathead play, the keith primeau debacle of meathead play, the todd bertuzzi sucker punches and oh yeah lets not forget claude lemieux's wonderful ENTERTAINMENT with boarding Drapes. they find fighting entertaining... i go to HOCKEY games to see GOOD HOCKEY. i believe checking is a part of hockey but i dont go to see meathead or goon hockey... if thats what "we find as entertaining" then maybe we can talk Haun into swinging his stick some more... having a tough guy on the bench or on a line and being aggressive is NOT THE SAME THING as dropping gloves 2 or 3 times a game. if thats what people want to see, then ill spend my money elsewhere. heck, those people can get tickets to the boxing matches or the toughman contests, and leave the "boring" non-fighting games to those of us who like hockey for what hockey is... Agree with you 100%! Hockey is NOT about fighting anymore, it's more skills than the fighting now. As far as the four guys you mentioned section10 only one out of the four I remember is Aspy. He was not a fighter, but a scorer and played AGGRESSIVELY! Notice the word I used. Guys that have played here in the past three years that were aggressive include the likes of Tucker, Aspy, Zehr (though he did goon it up occasionally) and Chafe.
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Apr 4, 2010 18:51:20 GMT -5
Post by computerjunkie on Apr 4, 2010 18:51:20 GMT -5
Boys, I have played hockey my for 33 years. Don't insult my intelligence about the game whenmost of you don't know how to tie skates. Minor league hockey is entertainment......No checking, no after whistle skirmishes, and no fighting is not entertainment to most people. How many people watched Holmstrom get pushed around today by Carcillo? How many cheap shots did Datsyuk take today from Philly players? Was there anything done by the Wings to prevent it? Who do you remember more Curtis Sayler or Paul Polilo? Dave Ivaska or Josh aspenlind? You probably remember the tough guys more, why? THEY ENTERTAINED YOU!!!!!!!!! The Hawks dress 17 players. 11 forwards and 6 defensemen. They play mostly 9 or 10 forwards and 6 defensemen almost the entire game. Why not have a tough guy, entertainer, fan favorite, and some muscle on the bench? Wouldn't you rather see that than a Kerry Bowman or Lovell or Turner? Please don't tell me that Kerry is a good penalty killer because so are 6 other guys. If you played for 33 years, then of all people, you should know and have seen the game change first hand from the goon like game it used to be back in the Howe Era, to what it is now. No one is insulting your intelligence, we are just questioning it because you claim a 6-0 butt kicking of a game was boring because there weren't any good like antics, when the rest of the arena was in good spirits from the team getting a good win. That's all we are saying. You sucked the wind out of a positive thing.
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Apr 4, 2010 18:52:14 GMT -5
Post by computerjunkie on Apr 4, 2010 18:52:14 GMT -5
Section 10, I'd like to see you go up to Larry Sterling, Auffrey, Cowan and the other guys and tell them how boring that game was because they didn't fight. I bet your a$$ then you will get a fight.
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BORING
Apr 4, 2010 20:11:57 GMT -5
Post by stinger on Apr 4, 2010 20:11:57 GMT -5
Cowan did fight one of the tough guys Section 10 listed-maybe he shouldn't have.
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BORING
Apr 5, 2010 0:02:26 GMT -5
Post by computerjunkie on Apr 5, 2010 0:02:26 GMT -5
Cowan did fight one of the tough guys Section 10 listed-maybe he shouldn't have. I personally didn't see the fight as it happened way to quickly. I'm not even sure what caused it. All I know is we have guys that can step up and play the enforcer, but it's their decision if they wanna do it. I know at some points they, but that night there really wasn't any need to. We were up 6-0, kinda pointless to start lowering yourself to their level and be a-holes. It was better letting them try to be tough and watching our guys rub the score in their faces. That's what I call a sweet victory. We need all of our guys healthy, fighting will just put them at risk for injury, but if it comes down to it and 2 guys wanna throw down, by all means, let them go at it.
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BORING
Apr 5, 2010 6:46:23 GMT -5
Post by section10 on Apr 5, 2010 6:46:23 GMT -5
In a jist this is what I am saying. If you people feel that watching a game with no checking, no emotion, and no rough stuff is entertaining then save yourself some money and go watch the Sunday Senior Mens games at 6 and 730pm during the winter. There are some former Beacons and Flags in that league. Now if you are going to spend $10 for a ticket and $3 to park, you should expect to see some sort of entertainment. I'm not saying GOON hockey but I am saying FINISHING CHECKS and play with some SPARK and EMOTION. When the time comes to step up, drop the gloves to spark your team and the FANS. You people who think watching this team is entertaining night in and night out are wrong in my opinion. By the way, in my 33 years of playing hockey, I have played at the junior and college level. Minor League hockey is falling apart because of this new European style of hockey in the NHL. Even their attendance is down.
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